On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Dr. Lisa Earle wrote:

...quoting John Haggee:
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The 1967 borders are totally indefensible! The enemies of Israel would have the ability to destroy the nation of Israel for the first time. A Peace Treaty with 1967 borders would be a Certificate of Death for the State of Israel.

The New York Times is attempting to rewrite history concerning the '67 war.

Fact 1: The '67 war was started by the Arabs and miraculously the Israeli Defense Forces defeated the Arabs and Israel was saved. Israel kept the territory their blood had purchased which is the right of every democracy attacked by its enemies.

Fact 2: The borders of 1967 are absolutely indefensible! It would only be 8 miles across Israel from the Mediterranean Sea to the Palestinian State.

Fact 3: The Palestinians are ruled by Hamas which is an internationally recognized terrorist organization funded and trained by Iran. Think of it! The President is asking Israel to make peace with people who have a written covenant calling for the death of every Jew on the earth.

Fact 4: The beginning of any peace process must contain the Palestinian confession that Israel has the right to exist, the right to defensible borders, and the right to attack those that attack them. Without that, all that comes out of the White House is political propaganda.

If there was ever a time to pray for the peace of Jerusalem it's now!





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On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Dave Ruden wrote:

Well, it is true that Hamas is a terrorist group with an agenda to destroy Israel.
And it is true that Hamas has Iranian Shiia connections (although not as strong as this John Haggee suggests - this is one reason why the PLO was ejected from Lebanon. They didn't really get along with Hezbollah, which is heavily dominated by Iran and Syria.

A really good book on the entire thing is Thomas Freedman's "From Beirut to Jerusalem". Difficult, complicated, nearly impossible for an outsider to remember all the nuances. But it lays out the players and their positions wrt each other.

However it is not true that the Palestinians are led by Hamas - and it is misleading to say so. The Gaza Palestinians are led by Hamas, while the West Bank Palestinians are led by Fatah. Neither group likes the other - in spite of their recent reconciliation.

And Fatah has accepted, publicly, and in writing, Israel's right to exist. Israeli policy though (the right-wing) continues to be one of dehumanization, and disenfranchisement. You do this long enough to a generally secular population, and they will eventually turn to the only thing left to them - religious fanaticism. Case in point - Hamas. I consider the rise in Hamas' political popularity and power to be the fault (generally) of Israeli policy to intentionally do just that. Arafat also has major blame here as well (he was too stupid and paranoid to accept peace when it was there in his hands). But that's my opinion on it.

I will say, though, that I did not anticipate this blatant Israeli policy to result in a somewhat permanent rift in the Palestinian populace. Even more brilliant an outcome than I thought it would be simply turning a secular population into sectarian extremists. Not that I like it, not that I agree with it. But I see the strategy of it.

So note that just because I hold Israeli policy on this issue to blame for Hamas, it doesn't mean I like Hamas. I don't find them very useful at all. I just think having a 2-state peace is the only way to go. And now with Palestinians partly represented by a sectarian extremist Hamas instead of simply the secular Fatah, it's just way harder to get there. Great short term gain for Israeli sympathy. Long term failure. Folly.


My 2 cents :).
---D.